Stuber V. Crawley and Stanley 1

simmer down y’all, those nightsticks are loaded

Rob Witte’s Photos

I continue to be amazed that this photo is from Denver.

• Peter Crawley What’s noticeable here is the women are in the front line, where are all the men?
• October 24 at 7:33am • LikeUnlike

• Doug Stuber The men are on the left
• October 24 at 12:27pm • LikeUnlike • 1Loading…
• October 24 at 12:32pm • LikeUnlike

• Doug Stuber Sure I do, I stood in protest with the type of folks on the right side any number of times. Glad to be away from it all…
• October 24 at 12:41pm • LikeUnlike

• Bigman Hahn I have to say I have been on both sides and really do not like the idea that it is necessary but government does not take care or do the work they should so we are left to this
• October 24 at 1:12pm • LikeUnlike

• Doug Stuber
• An no jobs will return, and no bankers will be jailed, and, unlike Sweden, which GOT THE MONEY BACK after bailing out its banks, the US REAL taxpayers, you know, the ones who have it taken out before seeing a dime, will be stuck…but wait, if …the US stops buying things like we always have, the entire world economy will tank, and then whoever has a farm will be the winner (if she/he can protect it) and everyone else will be SOL..Shit Outta LuckS
• October 24 at 1:54pm • LikeUnlike • 3Loading…

• Bigman Hahn it is all a joke keep the money going to the rich it will trickle down ha hatoo funny
• October 24 at 2:05pm • LikeUnlike

• Julian Warmington

• Icelanders Kicked Them All Out Now Writing Their Own Constitution
• Mike Rivero
• October 24 at 3:41pm • UnlikeLike • 1Loading… •

• Peter Crawley You guy’s sound mad, if so, make sure you put your next (obviously the current isn’t doing it) congress person in (lobby every voter you can reach) power that promises to do exactly what you and 230mil others want achieved. Then you will never have to get mad again. Remember he/she that does not do their best to recitfy or change the status quo does not deserve to complain!
• October 27 at 10:29am • LikeUnlike

• Doug Stuber
• Of course, this is why more and more are hitting the streets. The great thing about American democracy as it stands to today is that with eh 2010 “Citizens United” case in the Supreme Court, any donor, private or corporate, can donate AS M…UCH MONEY AS THEY WANT to political campaigns or political advertising ANONYMOUSLY! This gives big money an even stronger “voice” and, for ONE, has made it impossible to pass a “truth in labeling” law that would inform consumers if their food has genetically Modified Organisms in it. The Irony? IN the past 16 years, in 16 different polls, between 85 and 95% of Americans want those labels. Still, only three of 535 members of congress are in favor of the law. Why? Monsanto money, that’s why. #2) Hank Paulson, former CEO of Goldman Sachs, orchestrated the “bailout” which NO ONE knew the details of, and which probably does not even require the banks to pay the money back. #3) The federal reserve bank, and private bank, has been ordering the treasury to print up 8 Billion PER DAY to pump into the NYSE in “Quantitative Easing” that will only cause, as you would know, Peter, massive inflation later on if the M2 money ever drifts over into M1. #4) with al the debt the US Owes, isn’t hyperinflation a simple way to be able to afford to pay everyone back? If so, what of the consumers, many of whom saw their jobs move to Mexico and CHina already? Sure, hit the street, AND complain, that’s becoming the mode du jour
• October 27 at 10:57am • LikeUnlike

• Doug Stuber
• New Occupation, 2012

The disenfranchised
take to the streets; without jobs
… … they try to
formulate systems

of everyone’s needs
by consensus: a
direct democracy for
small town change.

Local gains will be
national non-existent.
Fascists don’t
give up, they just die.

mouthpieces seek
leaders to blame, a
list of demands, ribbonned box
to veto.

Two of the
twenty-twelve candidates will
address these
issues, three percent
will vote for them. Though

protests are
on behalf of the ninety
nine percent,
ninety six remain
unable to change.

Doug Stuber

• October 27 at 10:57am • LikeUnlike

• Peter Crawley
• I agree with your comments re the problems however, the PEOPLE make the difference by voting. The big money in Tunisia, Egypt, Libya lost, as will Syria. The people like, “the Occupy” have twigged, used mobile media to spread the word as th…ey had no choice at the ballot box (single party) and now like the US they have gained(ing) a democracy. Yes I know they took to the streets (see the blood) because no other way for them. Doug you have a huge network whom no doubt have equally huge networks to spread truth, facts and the “power of the people” without resorting to what (on TV) looks like planned chaos whipped up by professional riot crews and those not willing to do their fair share for America. YES the 99% need to be heard buy heard with credibility and peaceful consensus. We the world need the US of A to regain its rightful place “at the Top” of world respect and leadership. By the way the Chinese and Mexican jobs came about because the consumer accepted cheaper but vastly inferior products and services, nobody was forced to buy bargains. Quality of service (local government) systems (Federal Govt) products and life should be the goal of every man woman and child.

• October 27 at 1:22pm • LikeUnlike • 1Loading…

• Doug Stuber
• Mexican and Chinese products were going to be cheaper without NAFTA and GATT 2, but with those treaties, and with the US of A government handing out TAX BREAKS to corporations who MOVED manufacturing jobs overseas, which company could resist? Why pay union-gained $15-30 per hour, when Mexico is averaging $2.85 and China 52 Cents per hour. My research on this extensive, and can be provided via email. SO say you just got laid off (over 60 million blue collar jobs have been lost in the US, sir) and all you can afford is to shop at Wal-Mart. Well, you’ll be buying Chinese manufactured goods and less than safe food. Aha, you say, but what about the service jobs? Those have moved to India. A Democracy is NOT one when both parties kowtow to only the corporate MANAGEMENT side, as Clinton and Obama have. It was Clinton’s Banking reform act that allowed banks to lend 30 times what they had on deposit (it was 12 times deposits before the 1995 law) and Clinton’s Welfare reform that crippled the US underclass, allowing only 3 years on the dole FOR LIFE. Now they are after Medicaid and Medicare (health programs for the elderly and under privileged). Obama changed NOTHING and did ZERO to help African Americans or the poor. Still, the jail population is on the rise, so the ARE new jobs for jail wardens and guards. With only 25% of the US in possession of a Bachelor’s degree, labor jobs are important, but gone. (Who can afford a US University anyway!?)Defense jobs still have some security…but security is a funny word when one is building atomic weapons for one’s job. Mussolini: “Fascism is when big business and government only work for the benefit of bug business and government.” According to Benito then, the US has been a fascist state since 1980. ONLY I mean ONLY UPS was able to eke out a TIE in ANY union Strike since 1980. The rest of the time things got worse for labor, or the company just moved its labor jobs overseas. The US democracy is broken….more proof? Take the 2000 elections and how they were stolen in Florida or 2004 and how they were stolen in Ohio. All the proof is there on both of these. How about the NON_PLANE that did NOT hit the Pentagon on 9-11-2001? How about the physics professors all over the US explaining how a plane could never disintegrate a building. Or World Trade Center #7, and its implosion WAY after the fact? What was that about? Real change with real choices will only happen if American STOP voting Democrat OR Republican…and the two-party system is NOT in the US Constitution. In fact, the US Constitution FORBIDS political parties, as it is begging voters to “vote for the man” not any party “ideology.” Ha…the separation of Church and State principle has also been smashed by Cheney, et al. See More
• October 27 at 1:44pm • LikeUnlike

• Peter Crawley True Blue American companies that need and deserve the support of Americans.
• October 31 at 7:04am • LikeUnlike

• Doug Stuber OK but US corporate profits are higher than ever, and at the same time, so is unemployment…Which should we favor then larger profits, or hiring more Americans?
• November 1 at 10:34pm • LikeUnlike

• Robert Stanley Doug, I cannot believe that those alternatives are the only ones. In the past, BOTH rose. Why can it not happen as it usually does?
• November 2 at 3:38am • LikeUnlike

• Doug Stuber
• Because so many manufacturing jobs got shipped to the cheapest b[possible labor made possible via GATT, GATT 2 and NAFTA (accomplished under Clinton, mind you!). But there’s more: what about flat out corporate greed OVER and ABOVE the needs of the American workers? By the 1980s corporations were no longer loyal to their workers. In Sweden a similar banking meltdown (see USA 2008) happened and the bankers were put in jail, and the government was paid back ALL the bailout money inside four years. We don’t even know if these trillions we gave to the already-rich are EVER going to be paid back. Thus: banks make money when their loans go bad via: 1) Bailout 2) Derivatives that increase in value WHEN THE LOANS GO BAD, and 3) Selling the homes they foreclosed on. Wow that is a TRIPLE DIP Robert. 34% of the housing sales in the first half of 2011 have been FORECLOSURE SALES. This means house values will continue to fall precipitously. Yet, no one at Goldman Sachs, or anywhere else has been facing court charges or jail time. If the bank got bailed out, WHY FORCLOSE? I will tell you why, GREED. It will take 1000 nay 100,000 Steve Jobs types to create enough of an economy to pay back the national debt. The UNC/Duke Economic roundtable points out that 28% of the money the US borrows is used to cover the daily INTEREST on money we already owe. Meanwhile tax breaks to the wealthy under Bush REMAIN IN PLACE while the less than wealthy lose their homes at 6432 homes PER DAY to foreclosure. This all started when Reagan Bailed out the Savings and Loans like Silverado (G.W. Bush, Jr. and Jeb Bush were both on its board) which were banks set up expressly for the purpose of loaning money to their friends’ development schemes, most of which went bankrupt (on purpose) never paid the loans back and the US taxpayer footed the bill. THEN, the homes were eventually sold under different corporate flags and PRESTO the profits were huge because the bankers never had to pay back the loans they had bought the land and built the houses with…using Mexican labor, mind you. Only 25%b of the US has a bachelor’s degree. Thus labor jobs are still the backbone of our economy, but wait are they? No, consumer SPENDING accounts for 67% of our economy now, and with now jobs, who is going to buy anything? Oh Wal-Mart may be OK, but Macy’s and SO MANY OTHERS are tinkering on bankruptcy. And when the almighty US consumer is finally NOT offered any more credit cards? What happens to all the economies around the world when US consumers stop buying? OH this is a mess, and it’s just begun to get bad. See More
• November 2 at 9:46am • LikeUnlike

• Peter Crawley The corporations may well pay for political advertising BUT its the people that put the crosses on the ballot papers. Maybe its its time THE people (ALL 230 million angry people that are not corporate bosses) planned take control (peacefully and constructively) of their lives and started the “Peoples party for the People” and step by careful step win ten seats at a time in Congress and the Senate.
• November 2 at 10:47am • LikeUnlike

• Robert Stanley Peter is, to my mind, more right than Doug: the people are not some plantation slaves, either being “run” by fat cats, nor are they so stupid they need “Progressives” to tell them what’s best for them. So, opine all you will; the general wisdom of the people will out, eventually and imperfectly.
• November 2 at 11:16am • LikeUnlike

• Doug Stuber But Peter, if both Dem and Republican candidates are then influenced by UNLIMITED contributions AFTER they are in office, isn’t there a chance that big money will control the whole show, and that the common man, no matter who she votes for, will be left out of the mix?
• November 2 at 4:43pm • LikeUnlike

• Doug Stuber
• The Supreme Court case “Citizens United” in 2010 cleared the way for UNLIMITED ANONYMOUS contributions to be made to political candidates/officeholders as a matter of “free speech,” which was a poor 5-4 decision that redefined money as speech, but, nevertheless, gives much more speaking time to those with big money interests than anyone else. The US has lost over 60 million jobs to big business that was granted tax breaks IN ORDER to move the jobs overseas. GATT and GATT 2 and NAFTA and KORUS and any number of free trade treaties now SUPRCEDE ANY country’s sovereignty. It is not about whether i am progressive or not….it will soon be about the sheer number of people upset about this and so many other realities of government dysfunction that will cause the street protests to swell. GATT and GATT 2 and NAFTA were all pushed onto mostly unwilling Democrats in the US congress by…Bill Clinton, a trilateral commissioner from WAY BACK as the environmentally degrading governor of Arkansas. He taught Dems that one way to win elections is to steal enough Republican ideas to get the funding needed. Then comes Obama, who got 60% of his seed money (prior to beating Hilary Clinton in the primaries) from REGISTERED REPUBLICANS. Thus, his lame attempt at Health Care “reform” and so many other items he may have tried (had he not been influenced by big money) but which have, since, made his campaign rhetoric look like a pack of lies. The Media and the politicians in a WORKING democracy, need to offer voters a CHOICE, which hasn’t been done since about 1960 in the USA by my count. Ah, but what do I know? I only wrote Presidential campaign speeches for 8 years, not a lifetime. See More
• November 2 at 4:53pm • LikeUnlike

• Doug Stuber Robert: Peter is more right than me, agreed.
• November 2 at 4:53pm • LikeUnlike

• Robert Stanley
• Doug, I feel some of your outrage; but I’m not sure the Supremes decision is an unmitigated disaster. Money flies all over the place, freely lobbying (a constitutional right, of course). As long as we the people can still vote, the money from big oil, teachers unions, Enron, labor, and on can appeal to us, too, countering what “the other guy” is shelling out for influence. Plus, as an insider, you probably saw ego, need for votes, and many other reasons for one human who had been elected to fight the goals of the other human who had been elected.

I respect you knowledge–and your humor. The above is not meant argumentatively, but seeking your opinion.

BobSee More
• November 2 at 11:06pm via • LikeUnlike

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• Peter Crawley
• Does everyone in the US abdicate their responsibility to make a choice, its not the media or the politicians that should give the people a choice (they media/pollies have made their choice and guess what they are doing it) IT IS THE PEOPLE t…hat should/need to take responsibility on themselves and make a choice for themselves. If you don’t like what the media and pollies say and do, don’t buy, listen to or read what they espouse after all they are doing it for the money that’s the medias job (the shareholders demand that) the pollies on the other hand are doing for themselves, their jobs, their families well being and the perks and pensions. Agian if you don’t like it do something, other than whinning, about it! See More
• November 3 at 8:54am • LikeUnlike

• Peter Crawley Doug, How about gathering consensus for a raft of (draft) “people oriented policies” then you will have a consensual platform to attract candidates that can be acceptable to the people to enact THE POLICIES THE PEOPLE have chosen for the people?
• November 3 at 9:00am • LikeUnlike

• Doug Stuber
• Yes people are now, three years after the fact, finally getting off their couches and doing something. And I agree with Bob that votes in fact should be able to counter corruption, legal or otherwise. I believe my math is good on this, but if it is now legal to give unlimited amounts of money to politicians without registering the donation, hasn’t bribery thus been legalized? In fact, the Occupy Wall street movement (now in over 150 cities, not just New York) does have a large list of hopes, desires, and even demands…but the only two candidates I see embracing them at the Presidential level are the Socialist party candidate and Green Party candidate…and if memory serves these two parties total votes combined have never gotten to 5%. My beef is that so many of the protestors are still going to vote either democrat or republican. It makes them look foolish, because look at this list of demands, has a democrat or republican ever written a single bill in congress that addresses ANY OF THESE? Dennis Kucinich and Bernie Sanders aside, the rest of the elected officials appear to be perfectly at ease ignoring these: What follows is the first official, collective statement of the protesters in Zuccotti Park:
As we gather together in solidarity to express a feeling of mass injustice, we must not lose sight of what brought us together. We write so that all people who feel wronged by the corporate forces of the world can know that we are your allies.
As one people, united, we acknowledge the reality: that the future of the human race requires the cooperation of its members; that our system must protect our rights, and upon corruption of that system, it is up to the individuals to protect their own rights, and those of their neighbors; that a democratic government derives its just power from the people, but corporations do not seek consent to extract wealth from the people and the Earth; and that no true democracy is attainable when the process is determined by economic power. We come to you at a time when corporations, which place profit over people, self-interest over justice, and oppression over equality, run our governments. We have peaceably assembled here, as is our right, to let these facts be known.
They have taken our houses through an illegal foreclosure process, despite not having the original mortgage.
They have taken bailouts from taxpayers with impunity, and continue to give Executives exorbitant bonuses.
They have perpetuated inequality and discrimination in the workplace based on age, the color of one’s skin, sex, gender identity and sexual orientation.
They have poisoned the food supply through negligence, and undermined the farming system through monopolization.
They have profited off of the torture, confinement, and cruel treatment of countless animals, and actively hide these practices.
They have continuously sought to strip employees of the right to negotiate for better pay and safer working conditions.
They have held students hostage with tens of thousands of dollars of debt on education, which is itself a human right.
They have consistently outsourced labor and used that outsourcing as leverage to cut workers’ healthcare and pay.
They have influenced the courts to achieve the same rights as people, with none of the culpability or responsibility.
They have spent millions of dollars on legal teams that look for ways to get them out of contracts in regards to health insurance.
They have sold our privacy as a commodity.
They have used the military and police force to prevent freedom of the press.
They have deliberately declined to recall faulty products endangering lives in pursuit of profit.
They determine economic policy, despite the catastrophic failures their policies have produced and continue to produce.
They have donated large sums of money to politicians, who are responsible for regulating them.
They continue to block alternate forms of energy to keep us dependent on oil.
They continue to block generic forms of medicine that could save people’s lives or provide relief in order to protect investments that have already turned a substantial profit.
They have purposely covered up oil spills, accidents, faulty bookkeeping, and inactive ingredients in pursuit of profit.
They purposefully keep people misinformed and fearful through their control of the media.
They have accepted private contracts to murder prisoners even when presented with serious doubts about their guilt.
They have perpetuated colonialism at home and abroad.
They have participated in the torture and murder of innocent civilians overseas.
They continue to create weapons of mass destruction in order to receive government contracts.*
To the people of the world, We, the New York City General Assembly occupying Wall Street in Liberty Square, urge you to assert your power.
Exercise your right to peaceably assemble; occupy public space; create a process to address the problems we face, and generate solutions accessible to everyone.
To all communities that take action and form groups in the spirit of direct democracy, we offer support, documentation, and all of the resources at our disposal.
Join us and make your voices heard! See More
• November 3 at 10:25am • LikeUnlike

• Robert Stanley I expectantly await the evolution of Occupy. Will it resonate and call to action as many as the Tea Party did. More?
• November 3 at 10:47am • LikeUnlike

• Doug Stuber Uh, maybe more, but not with as much money COMBINED as the Koch brothers have all to themselves. He he
• November 3 at 10:54am • LikeUnlike

• Robert Stanley Right! Or, for that matter, George Soros! har har
• November 3 at 12:28pm • LikeUnlike

• Doug Stuber Right! But if all Soros can get for his “progressive” money is Barak Obama, wow, what a waste of cash!
• November 3 at 12:42pm • LikeUnlike

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• Robert Stanley What if the Kochs are saddled with Santorum? Youch!
• November 3 at 12:53pm • LikeUnlike

• Friday at 11:06am • LikeUnlike

• Doug Stuber
• Agreed. For years my volunteer work was to register voters…in the states that let me. But one does not expect to be given a truly anti-greed, pro-environment, anti-war, anti-bailout candidate from either of the two major political parties in the US, and the Media will not talk to anyone else, so none other are very well known. I expect the 14 parties also running Presidential candidates, once again, to manage less than 5% of the votes combined. This in itself speaks to a shaky democracy. See More

 Peter Crawley
Like Bill Cosby; I’m tired of being told that I have to “spread the wealth” to people who don’t have my work ethic. I’m tired of being told the government will take the money I earned, by force if necessary, and give it to people too lazy t…See More
Like Bill Cosby; I’m tired of being told that I have to “spread the wealth” to people who don’t have my work ethic. I’m tired of being told the government will take the money I earned, by force if necessary, and give it to people too lazy t…o earn it.
I’m tired of being told that drug addicts have a disease, and I must help support and treat them, and pay for the damage they do. Did a giant germ rush out of a dark alley, grab them, and stuff white powder up their noses or stick a needle in their arm while they tried to fight it off?
I’m really tired of people who don’t take responsibility for their lives and actions. I’m tired of hearing them blame the government, or discrimination or big-whatever for their problems, when they should look in the mirror and do something about the biggest problem facing them!
3 hours ago • LikeUnlike

Doug Stuber Agreed that laziness should not be covered by hard working taxpayers. Then why is it the taxpayers should cover the losses of greedy, sub-prime lending banks? If AIG that was dumb enough to insure European banks for their excess (meaning sub-primes loans)…I mean why should AMERICAN taxpayers pay for the bailout of AIG, when all that bail out money went directly to EUROPEAN banks? In a “free market” system, those who make bad decisions should FAIL, like Lehman Brothers did. In Sweden irresponsible bankers went to JAIL…in the US irresponsible bankers gave THEMSELVES $14 billion in bonuses the same WEEK they received $12 Billion in Bailout money (the case is that of Citigroup). The Irony? The same people that mistakenly took too large a loan and got foreclosed upon will be PAYING for those bonuses with their “taken-out-in-advance” withholding from their paychecks for the next, uh 300 years or so. So far none of the “bankers” has been taken to court, no less put in jail.

Peter wrote: “I think you are focusing far to much anger and energy, when you could direct it into positive momentum and do so much more with your time talent and networks. The greedy will only change if the people change them by using their voting power, both political and investment. Yes, I hear you, lots have little but, lots using lots of littles as one can make a powerful difference. If 320million (or 95%) just put $10 each into a targeted/directed and astutely managed pool they will have the power of money to underpin the power of the people. You are a professional organiser and capable of drawing up a “people Plan” of action, attack and advancement (there you go a “triple A rated plan”.”

Doug Wrote.  Thanks to the devotion of many people with money, but now time, these protests continue on, funded by those who have more money than time.  So the idea of getting the money into the demonstrations is already in play.  Your AAA rated plan could work to…if the “people” would just come to realize that neither the Democrat nor Republican party will ever offer candidates that side with them.  It’s not the amount of money, but where it comes from that makes the difference.  Those two parties are so corrupted that a third party must arise, and perhaps a fourth.  I favor the French or German proportional democracies, as the percentage of votes a party gets becomes the percentage of seats they hold in Parliament.  This is highly unlikely in the U.S. though.   As is the Parliamentary procedure known as “a vote of no confidence” that causes elections to be held BEFORE a party’s five years (or any length determined) is up.  Of course the US penchant for an “electoral college” is another anti-democratic device.  Lastly, all third parties are ignored by the media NO MATTER how much money they have (the Libertarians are filthy rich, and only have REPUBLICAN Ron Paul on their side.  If I thought I could be part of a change actually happening, I’d have never left the US.  It’s akin to saying “let’s fix Russia, it’s broke.”  No kidding, but how?  Same in China.  Is .52 cents per hour not a crime?  It is, and it’s the average pay for a factory worker in China.  It turns me into an over-sized cheerleader, and an academic armchair radical…the same type of person I used to abhor.  Hmm, I just don’t see anything happening other than a much larger list of American terrorists, made by their own government.   If the “Occupy” movement actually wins, sure, then, weakling that I am, I might go home again.  I was on the “No Fly” list for over two years…I was interviewed and accused of terrible things I never did by the Secret Service.  That will get you to thinking, and quiet you down a touch…even resort to poetry to relieve angst.  Geesh, what a wimp I am!

Lottie Campenella I wonder if a “taxpayer” can take the bank to court….and get the bankers thrown in jail and held accountable? Even though our govt approved it…..who’s to blame?

about an hour ago ·LikeUnlike

Doug Stuber ‎1) the dingbats who took the million dollar loans and did NOT read the fine print about how much their monthly payments would rise as soon as the “interest only” time (usually 3-5 years) was over, and who saw monthly mortgage payments quadruple 2) the banks that made these loans, knowing they would foreclose eventually, and forgot that with SO MANY homes in foreclosure, uh, the prices would go down. 3) HANK PAULSON for scheming with former friends at Goldman Sachs and everywhere else, about how to bail out these “institutions” behind closed doors. Like this fact: Hank’s Goldman Sachs “bank” is now 80% owned by the US government, but the US government and its taxpayers only get 23% of the profits (should there be any) the rest going to the 20% of the shareholders who are brave enough to still own shares in the company. How many Americans know that 4) AIG insured EUROPEAN banks and that the bailout of AIG has been shipped ot the rich bankers in Europe. This one scalds me. But it’s too late kiddies, money printed and GONE. Still, there must be a way to try and convict both bankers and public officials right? Ha, I doubt it. The same “lawyer” (Gonzalez) who wrote Bush the note saying torture was OK was then made ATTORNEY GENERAL of the United States, thus cleared the way for Abuy Graib WITH IMPUINTY. Still, it took 3 years since the 2008 Subprime meltdown and resulting 12th-hour Bush bailouts for Americans to get upset. THIS is how hornswaggled the US citizens are by the “nightly news.” Amen.